Illerai:Requests for deletion/Vine (Draynor Manor)
Vine (Draynor Manor)
Alright, I think it's important I preface this entire Rfd by saying that I think this information is cool and should be on the wiki somewhere. I kinda just want to have a conversation on how best to display this information, and whether or not it would be better served as a subsection of the Draynor Manor page. The Draynor Manor vines can be described in the following three sentences:
- There is an 8x8 square in the Draynor Manor grounds where standing on them causes vines to whip up and attack the player
- Every 3 seconds, the vines will do one damage to the player, with the message "A vine whips out and attacks you!"
- The vines will stop attacking the player once they have left the area, with a one tile buffer on the north and east sides of the square.
With regards to an infobox, the vines aren't an object or NPC, and we don't have an infobox specifically for oddball game mechanics. As has been said in Discord, not every page needs an infobox, but then we're left with even less substance than we already have.
In my eyes, this is a choice between a stubby, one-paragraph page with a couple images, or a nice subsection describing an interesting feature of an existing area. From a practical standpoint, I think putting it on the Draynor Manor page also makes this information easier to find for readers, rather than on an arbitrarily-named "Vine (Draynor Manor)" page that probably won't be linked to from anywhere except the Draynor Manor page itself. This is also consistent with other simple location-specific mechanics, such as the chilling effect outside of GWD. Anyways, I'd love to hear what other people think about this specific situation or the general approach we should be taking with oddball game mechanics like this. :)
Delete - As nominator. BigDiesel2m (talk) 03:45, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- Why not make pages for all area-specific effects? Correct me if I'm wrong, but those are: Desert heat, Swamp decay, dark, Ice Path and GWD cold, Underwater oxygen and weight (both Pufferfish and Rock (Mogre Camp) weight systems), Zanaris random events (idunno if this one counts), and this Vine (Draynor Manor). Also perhaps Wilderness and Duel Arena which add a status icon to the bottom right. Just making a page for each of those, perhaps even with a new infobox (or adapting Infobox Location somehow) would work as well right? Doesn't mean their respective pages can't give information about it, but that way it'd be possible to give more background information, if applicable. Joeytje50 talk
04:29, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- What benefits do you see in splitting this information out to individual pages, especially in cases where there isn't more background information to add? BigDiesel2m (talk) 04:55, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- Having a clear consistent overview of the effects on every status-effect page might be useful. Stuff like the amount of time before the effect activates, amount of time between activations, area of influence, amount of damage, what prevents the effect from happening, consequences from the effect (i.e. stat/hp drain or drowning). What I'm thinking is that almost every one of the things I've listed could use an individual article about it for more in-depth descriptions. At that point, to be consistent with the other effects having an article, the vine page would have to be re-created. I'm going by the assumption that is going to happen, so that's why I commented this. Joeytje50 talk 05:22, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
- Having a clear consistent overview of the effects on every status-effect page might be useful. Stuff like the amount of time before the effect activates, amount of time between activations, area of influence, amount of damage, what prevents the effect from happening, consequences from the effect (i.e. stat/hp drain or drowning). What I'm thinking is that almost every one of the things I've listed could use an individual article about it for more in-depth descriptions. At that point, to be consistent with the other effects having an article, the vine page would have to be re-created. I'm going by the assumption that is going to happen, so that's why I commented this. Joeytje50 talk
- What benefits do you see in splitting this information out to individual pages, especially in cases where there isn't more background information to add? BigDiesel2m (talk) 04:55, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Keep - Per granularity, things like this deserve their own pages where we can go into detail about how they work, when they were released, changes to them, if you can prevent the effect, where they occur, when they occur, etc. Why do you think we should document all of this on the Draynor Manor page? Sure, there's some information like the addition of the Draynor vines to the Draynor Manor's grounds would be stated in the subject changes of Draynor Manor, but that wouldn't be the case for the other way round. They're individual subjects, one is just inside of the other. Like desert heat isn't the same subject as the Kharidian Desert, but is inside of it.
Articles do not have to be long to be worthy of pages on the wiki, and in this case, I don't even agree that this page would be particularly stubby after somebody actually documents everything to do with the vines. And to be honest, I don't think anybody will document this fully if it's just a subsection of the Draynor Manor article either.
What substance do we lose from not using an infobox in these specific instances? Given your previous project of adding release dates into subject changes, I don't actually think we lose any substance if we apply that here.
Linking to it should obviously be done on the Draynor Manor page anyways so your argument of it being harder to find doesn't seem particularly relevant? It'd be 1 more click for people, if they didn't get redirected there immediately anyways. I think for other cases of area-based effects like desert heat or freezing, combining the effect into the location page would make it much harder for people to find information about the effect. In fact, it already does make it extremely difficult to find information about these effects that we don't have pages for, like freezing, which I can't find any information about how often it drains stats, only vague, offhand statements like "every few seconds" or "periodically".
Tldr, I believe this would go against our current granularity policy and set a precedent that we shouldn't fully document area-based effects. User:Crow653/Signature 06:47, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Keep - Vaguely helps SEO(?) and allows us to categorize these effects more effectively. If not for those two reasons, I wouldn't really care. -Towelcat (talk) 06:37, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
Delete - I think this should be moved to a subsection of the Draynor Manor page. I did some searching around the web and there wasn't, nor is there now, any specific information on these vines. Even our sister wiki has them listed on their Draynor Manor page as a subsection. I don't think this RfD should serve as a rule for all area effects/oddball stuff...that's going to take a proper thread to establish what we want to do as a wiki. There just isn't enough to justify an article at this time that is just going to possibly sit with a {{Stub}} on it until someone gets around to figuring out what's the deal with these (which hasn't happened yet if we really cared about that). --User:Legaia2Pla/Signature 22:57, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Keep - On the basis that historically, we only get good information on this sort of thing if it's on its own page. Having separate pages for this stuff forces us to actually note down everything interesting about it, which is why we have a map and an actual description of the mechanics, whereas we never had any of that stuff on either the RSW or the OSRS pages for the building next to it. I can't imagine having the tile map of active squares on the Draynor Manor page - just doesn't seem like a good use of space to me.
This is a lesson we can also learn for pages that don't exist yet - for example, what is actually going on with Swamp decay? ʞooɔ 23:21, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
- don't know, you tell me. Joeytje50 talk 23:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Keep - Per my responses to Diesel's message Joeytje50 talk 23:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)
Closed - There currently is no consensus to delete this article. Those who are in favour of keeping this article are of course encouraged to do some research into the effect, and document it on the page to prove their point. Those who are in favour of deleting the article are also encouraged to do the same. Also, What's the deal with Swamp decay, anyway https://i.imgur.com/x7VMMAI.png ? Joeytje50 talk 13:15, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. No further edits should be made to this page.